What the crap
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Topic started: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:51Log-in or register to post to this topic.
Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:04
Adam M wrote:
IMO most problems of this kind are software problems result from some conflicts between applications/Windows etc. However, if you wipe the machine and the problem still occurs, it's most likely the hardware, potentially the HDD.
Not that I want it to be hardware (or software, as it looks like they'll be equally messy to fix) but wouldn't the lack of virii, spyware and going through the HDD error checks / defragging reduce the possibility that it is software?
And if it was software, wouldn't the program crash without me getting the Blue Screen?
During the Blue screen, it says that there is a hardware problem, but I like you don't just want to accept what it's saying (I'd like to get to the bottom of this)
When I worked for Ambrosia Software, I picked up the adage "if it's not on fire, it's a software problem." yet after experiencing this, I'm starting to wonder...
Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:30
TwoADay wrote:
Not that I want it to be hardware (or software, as it looks like they'll be equally messy to fix) but wouldn't the lack of virii, spyware and going through the HDD error checks / defragging reduce the possibility that it is software?
Not really, a recently-installed application could have overwritten a Windows file, causing Windows to become unstable. A new Windows Update could have conflicted with an application you installed years ago. An application could have crashed and overwritten something it shouldn't have. The list is endless.
And if it was software, wouldn't the program crash without me getting the Blue Screen?
No. There are many software things that can break causing a blue screen. For example, if the registry (a database of Windows a program settings) becomes badly corrupted the computer will frequently blue-screen. A disk defragmention program from Ontrack caused intermittent blue screens when it was installed on Windows XP.
During the Blue screen, it says that there is a hardware problem, but I like you don't just want to accept what it's saying (I'd like to get to the bottom of this)
I'm not saying it isn't a hardware error, but software errors are more common than hardware errors, especially if the machine is fairly new. Also previously you mentioned an "unknown harderror" which was a bit ambiguous ;).
When I worked for Ambrosia Software, I picked up the adage "if it's not on fire, it's a software problem." yet after experiencing this, I'm starting to wonder...
LOL :).
Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:24
Adam is right, it is more likely to be a software problem than a hardware one, although without being infront of the system its getting harder to figure out what the problem might be. I'm guessing you don't live anywhere near Wiltshire or Somerset?
If you haven't installed anything recently, then it could well be a faulty hard drive.
If you are running XP you could try going back to a restore point (which is one of the things Adam M mentioned). You can access it from Start Menu -> (All Programs) -> Accessories -> System Tools -> System Restore.
From there you will be able to view all the restore points Windows has made, again making sure you have eveything backedup, I'd suggest going back a month or so, to a point when your system was working fine.
This being windows, there is no guarentee it will work but it might and is worth a try.
If you still don't have any luck, then it looks like you'll have to wipe the system and start from scratch 8~(
Keep us posted on any developments
If you haven't installed anything recently, then it could well be a faulty hard drive.
If you are running XP you could try going back to a restore point (which is one of the things Adam M mentioned). You can access it from Start Menu -> (All Programs) -> Accessories -> System Tools -> System Restore.
From there you will be able to view all the restore points Windows has made, again making sure you have eveything backedup, I'd suggest going back a month or so, to a point when your system was working fine.
This being windows, there is no guarentee it will work but it might and is worth a try.
If you still don't have any luck, then it looks like you'll have to wipe the system and start from scratch 8~(
Keep us posted on any developments
Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:42
Sorry, I'm in the States, so I guess there no chance you'd be in the area (unless you plan on visting Nashville anytime soon, but I don't know why someone who is from another country would go to Nashville of all places)
I'll keep you all posted. I ran the disk stuff, and a friend recommended using Diskeeper to defrag (he was saying something along the line of Diskeeper defrags system areas while the Windows one doesn't)
I'm getting slowdowns (it took about 3 minutes to launch Firefox this morning, and moving the browser window has resulted in some artifacts of the window staying in their old place) but thus far no crashes (it looked pretty close yesterday though)
like I said though, I'll let you all know if something new pops up.
I'll keep you all posted. I ran the disk stuff, and a friend recommended using Diskeeper to defrag (he was saying something along the line of Diskeeper defrags system areas while the Windows one doesn't)
I'm getting slowdowns (it took about 3 minutes to launch Firefox this morning, and moving the browser window has resulted in some artifacts of the window staying in their old place) but thus far no crashes (it looked pretty close yesterday though)
like I said though, I'll let you all know if something new pops up.
Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:06
TwoADay wrote:
I'm getting slowdowns (it took about 3 minutes to launch Firefox this morning, and moving the browser window has resulted in some artifacts of the window staying in their old place) but thus far no crashes (it looked pretty close yesterday though)
This is rich. Not five minutes after that post, I go to another room, to come back and see windows is restarting...
Tue, 26 Sep 2006 07:16
This is getting quite tough now and unfortunately I'm not planning on coming to the States.
I think the next step is to check error codes, do the following:
Right-click My Computer -> Select Manage, now select the Event Viewer option and expand it. There should be 3 options, Application, Security and System.
Have a look in Application and System and I expect you'll see plenty of Red crosses. See if there are any from around the time the system froze/hung/blue screened/rebooted and have a look at them. They may look a bit confusing, if you see something you don't understand either do an internet search for the words in the description and the Event ID. Failing that post them here and we'll see what we can come up with.
It's also worth looking for any errors in the Event Log when the system boots up normally.
As always let us know what you find?
I think the next step is to check error codes, do the following:
Right-click My Computer -> Select Manage, now select the Event Viewer option and expand it. There should be 3 options, Application, Security and System.
Have a look in Application and System and I expect you'll see plenty of Red crosses. See if there are any from around the time the system froze/hung/blue screened/rebooted and have a look at them. They may look a bit confusing, if you see something you don't understand either do an internet search for the words in the description and the Event ID. Failing that post them here and we'll see what we can come up with.
It's also worth looking for any errors in the Event Log when the system boots up normally.
As always let us know what you find?
Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:46
not to side track but im having a little issue of my own i was hoping someone could help with.
To be as brief as possible, laptop hard drive partitioned into two. Computer acting weird, run system restore. system restore says it will erase everythign on the primary partition. super, all my files are copied ot the secondary one. System restor disc is a lying whore. Computer runs great, many files are gone.
Tried a few freeware/opensource type data recovery apps but they are all really feature light and difficult to use terribly well. I had used a non free ware that just had a trial period soem years ago and it was much nicer. Dont want to spend all the mula to buy soemthign if i can help it so any recomendatiosn woudl be much apreciated.
To be as brief as possible, laptop hard drive partitioned into two. Computer acting weird, run system restore. system restore says it will erase everythign on the primary partition. super, all my files are copied ot the secondary one. System restor disc is a lying whore. Computer runs great, many files are gone.
Tried a few freeware/opensource type data recovery apps but they are all really feature light and difficult to use terribly well. I had used a non free ware that just had a trial period soem years ago and it was much nicer. Dont want to spend all the mula to buy soemthign if i can help it so any recomendatiosn woudl be much apreciated.
Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:06
LUPOS wrote:
system restore says it will erase everythign on the primary partition. super, all my files are copied ot the secondary one. System restor disc is a lying whore. Computer runs great, many files are gone.
Tried a few freeware/opensource type data recovery apps but they are all really feature light and difficult to use terribly well. I had used a non free ware that just had a trial period soem years ago and it was much nicer. Dont want to spend all the mula to buy soemthign if i can help it so any recomendatiosn woudl be much apreciated.
Tried a few freeware/opensource type data recovery apps but they are all really feature light and difficult to use terribly well. I had used a non free ware that just had a trial period soem years ago and it was much nicer. Dont want to spend all the mula to buy soemthign if i can help it so any recomendatiosn woudl be much apreciated.
There used to be a free DOS tool called "undelete" if you have a FAT partition. Not the easiest thing to use though.
Magazine cover discs generally seem pretty good for free commerical apps - I have O&O Unerase from a cover disc which is fast and efficient.
The people who produced Diskeeper (Executive Software?) produced an undelete tool called "Undelete" - never used it though. (EDIT: it seems Execute Software has disappeared, however you can download Undelete from http://consumer.diskeeper.com/downloads/downloads.asp?RId=1&SId=2&CId=13&pass=384677750).
Sorry, not much help.
Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:26
miacid wrote:
This is getting quite tough now and unfortunately I'm not planning on coming to the States.
I think the next step is to check error codes, do the following:
Right-click My Computer -> Select Manage, now select the Event Viewer option and expand it. There should be 3 options, Application, Security and System.
Have a look in Application and System and I expect you'll see plenty of Red crosses. See if there are any from around the time the system froze/hung/blue screened/rebooted and have a look at them. They may look a bit confusing, if you see something you don't understand either do an internet search for the words in the description and the Event ID. Failing that post them here and we'll see what we can come up with.
It's also worth looking for any errors in the Event Log when the system boots up normally.
As always let us know what you find?
I think the next step is to check error codes, do the following:
Right-click My Computer -> Select Manage, now select the Event Viewer option and expand it. There should be 3 options, Application, Security and System.
Have a look in Application and System and I expect you'll see plenty of Red crosses. See if there are any from around the time the system froze/hung/blue screened/rebooted and have a look at them. They may look a bit confusing, if you see something you don't understand either do an internet search for the words in the description and the Event ID. Failing that post them here and we'll see what we can come up with.
It's also worth looking for any errors in the Event Log when the system boots up normally.
As always let us know what you find?
I'm getting lots of errors from "perfnet" ( 6 today, 2 yesterday) in the application section (the red Xs) along with an occaional "application hang" (1 yesterday)
I'm also getting warnings concerning Userenv (3 days ago).
In the system section, I'm getting the following red Xs:
atapi (more than 27 today alone)
Service Control Manager (more than 12 today)
System error (4 today)
In that order of frequency.
I'm also getting the following warnings (yellow triangles with exclamation points)
Disk (10 in the past hour and a half)
Dhcp ( 11 in the past 7 hours)
Server (2 times today)
The numbers should help determine the frequency of these.
The Perfnet deal came up a fair amount on Google, but there wasn't much concrete info about it, or more specifically how to fix it.
does this shed any light for you all?
Wed, 27 Sep 2006 02:44
I guess I should now add that in the past 2 hours since I wrote last, I've had 2 Blue Screens. One time Firefox was open, and I got a message about
Kernal_Data_Inpage_Error
The second time Nothing (and I mean nothing) was running by my hand. I was actually trying to access my external HD. It wasn't showing up, but I tried to go to "my computer" to try to locate it anyway. the "my computer" section never showed, I got an error instead.
At least I got the quick and dirty Powerpoint that I needed ready for tomorrow's class...
Kernal_Data_Inpage_Error
The second time Nothing (and I mean nothing) was running by my hand. I was actually trying to access my external HD. It wasn't showing up, but I tried to go to "my computer" to try to locate it anyway. the "my computer" section never showed, I got an error instead.
At least I got the quick and dirty Powerpoint that I needed ready for tomorrow's class...
Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:22
You certainly seem to be getting a fair few errors, let's try and address these one at a time.
"Kernal_Data_Inpage_Error" This can be caused by corruption in our old friend the pagefile.sys, so one thing to try is recreate the pagefile.sys.
Right-click on My Computer->Properties->Advanced, then select the Settings button under Performance. On the new window select the Advanced tab; now click on the Change button. From this new window, make sure the C: drive is selected and then select the 'No paging file' radio button. Then click the Set button, then OK until it asks you to restart, one you've restarted, go back into the above and select the System managed size button and then Set, OK, no restart this time.
However I'm also concerned about the ATAPI errors you are getting as this is more than likely an error with you CD-ROM drive. So the best thing to do here is download the latest software and firmware for you CD drive and maybe even does a Windows update and does the custom option so you can select the non essential items. As I'm assuming you have the latest Service Packs and updates.
Although the info you gave before has shed a bit more light on the situation, I really need to see the entries in the Event Log when a crash or what ever occurs. So the next time it goes belly up, go back into Windows and make a note of all the errors just before it died. If you could give a bit more info from the Description along with the Event ID, it will make it easier to find a solution.
Let us know how you get on?
"Kernal_Data_Inpage_Error" This can be caused by corruption in our old friend the pagefile.sys, so one thing to try is recreate the pagefile.sys.
Right-click on My Computer->Properties->Advanced, then select the Settings button under Performance. On the new window select the Advanced tab; now click on the Change button. From this new window, make sure the C: drive is selected and then select the 'No paging file' radio button. Then click the Set button, then OK until it asks you to restart, one you've restarted, go back into the above and select the System managed size button and then Set, OK, no restart this time.
However I'm also concerned about the ATAPI errors you are getting as this is more than likely an error with you CD-ROM drive. So the best thing to do here is download the latest software and firmware for you CD drive and maybe even does a Windows update and does the custom option so you can select the non essential items. As I'm assuming you have the latest Service Packs and updates.
Although the info you gave before has shed a bit more light on the situation, I really need to see the entries in the Event Log when a crash or what ever occurs. So the next time it goes belly up, go back into Windows and make a note of all the errors just before it died. If you could give a bit more info from the Description along with the Event ID, it will make it easier to find a solution.
Let us know how you get on?
Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:41
Sorry, I don't have much experience in this area, all I'd normally do is send the disc of to a recovery company. Especially as you did a recovery, there is a chance the disc might have been formatted and the partitions recreated.
Sorry I couldn't be more help.
Sorry I couldn't be more help.
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1169 comments
I think that we're reaching the limit of how far we can fault-find without sitting in front of the computer.
Since we can't identify exactly what the problem is, and the primary symptoms are slow-down and intermittent crashes, it could be a software or hardware problem.
As mentioned above, the only way to elimiate the possibility of a software problem is to backup and wipe the whole hard disk clean and re-install Windows from scratch. Or use a recovery disc if it was provided with your computer. You will loose all applications and data, but if the fault re-occurs it's unlikely to be a software problem., proviuded you re-install all your applications one-by-one and make restore points inbetween (if an application is causing it you could then roll-back to before you installed it).
IMO most problems of this kind are software problems result from some conflicts between applications/Windows etc. However, if you wipe the machine and the problem still occurs, it's most likely the hardware, potentially the HDD.