Why PS2 Succeeded, and Why PS3 Will Fail

I can't say that I do. My point is that lots of people play Madden. Hardcore and non-Hardcore, whatever they may be. I'm white, and listen to rap. I don't like Eminem.

I just wish people would stop with the "hardcore v casual" gamer debate, and focus instead on "good games v bad."

As I stated before however, the more we use the term "casual" gamer, the more likely we are to dismiss them as part of a mindless, faceless mass, which doesn't help to explain why popular games aren't always good games.

I think that its true the casual/hardcore gamer lines are now shifting and merging somewhat and that's Nintendo's doing with DS and Wii.

I consider myself hardcore because I go as for as importing a game that I think deserves my attention as well as collecting the best games and consoles. I'm very selective gamewise but I buy both official and import games.

A casual gamer I'd class as someone of any gaming age, who buys any kind of game, depending on what they see in the charts or in tv ads or via word of mouth hype. They only buy official games and ignore the import scene.

For ages since back in the SNES?MD days I've always thought along the official and/or import games line because I feel it defines between the casual and hardcore, much better than what specific game they buy like Madden.

I do agree that on the MMO thing people do choose over style. WOW charcaters stay true to the series artstyle and this familiarity makes players feel at home.

surely people dont have to import to be considered a serious gamer?

Why do people buy State of Emergency? Why do people buy Slugfest and Hitz? Why are games like BMXXX made? Why is GTA so popular? Is not the answer the the casual gamer. Do casual gamers drool over pages of stats? Do casual like slow, plodding strategy games? Do casual gamers know a Gnoll from a Geomancer? I think not. A majority of gamers are folks who buy a few games here or there, never really getting uber excited like us hardcore gamers over every new bit of tech and new game release. I fall back to Madden again and again because I have lots of friends who only play sports games and maybe a few beat 'em ups. There vested interest in other such games or games that take alot of time to complete are just not their cup o' tea.

Casual is not a bad thing. Casual may best represented by the amount of time and/or money invested into said hobby. Anyone care to comment?

time spent gaming is definitely a sign as to wether someone is 'core or not id say, and i guess money spent gaming is too but some people are broke and cant afford everything theyd like when theyd like it

usually i find that (what i consider to be) hardcore gamers are more involved and up to date with whats going on in the industry, they have opinions on everything and even the minor details in games that go unnoticed by the masses can make or break their day

theres nothing more gutting than when you talk to a relative stranger and the conversation seems to be getting into 'serious gaming, past and present' territory because it crops up in conversation theyve finished Shark, but then they say 'ps3?' or 'analogue?'

i mean its gutting because i f**king love talking proper games with proper gamers

OK I'll bite. Toss the time/money idea out the window, its an obvious solution, but doesn't translate well in practice.

Casual gamers IMNSHO, can best be defined by the learning curve of the games themselves... Games which can be picked up and enjoyed with little or no time spent hair pulling. Now there are going to be some games which buck this trend due to cultural reasons, like Madden, which actually has a quite steep learning curve. GTA, Tetris, WarioWare, MineSweeper, Katamari Damacy, Super Mario Bros.-all feature fairly simple, easy to pick up controls, and fairly straightforward gameplay, all tremendous games for Casual Gamers.

As for 'core Gamers...all thats required is an invisible tattoo that reads "I'd rather be playing video games". This tattoo is automatically spawned once a person has enough midichlorions in their bloodstream. Except insofar as they feel the need to prove their 'coreness to others it has absolutely nothing to do with how much people know about next gen hardware, or how phat their daddy's wallet is, or how much time they spend playing.

Hardcore gamers do not recognize the new trilogy! You sir are not a hardcore gamer. Your reference was a poor choice and there were an infinite amount of "hardcore" source material from which to choose from. This is inexcusable!

You import games, yeah, you're prolly 'core according to my own definition (see previous). And I agree, people who buy games based on the charts are doing themselves and smaller publishers a disservice. But those people likely do that with everything... And I have to say, your litmus test smells awful "Importer Eliteist". Not an unreasonable attituide for an opressed minority, such as game importers, but awful harsh on those of us who've never bought an imported game, doncha think? Wait, possibly my copy of Elite was imported from UK. Score one for the lads.

Whatever happened to those two anywhoo? Was it a woman? Was it Yoko? Again?

OMG, MAJOR BRAINSTORM (-FART?)

31337™
for Xbox366 and Commodore 129d
A PreciousRoi Joint

or even better(and much more realistic), Elite on XBLA

Sorry, I save all my rabid, unrelenting, vitriolic antifanboyism for plotting the destruction of Peter Jackson, for spitting in my face, then slapping me with a single, innocuous line of dialogue...for the character assassination of one Faramir...and for being a twit who PRESUMES!?!? not to like "the Scouring of the Shire". The best moment related to the admittedly enjoyable "flicks" was on the MTV Movie Awards, when Gollum went on a unfortunately censcored rant, shrieking, among other things "PETER JACKSON IS A F**KING HACK!!!". I could have cried tears of joy. The unedited version of that...I could loop it, and make it into a techno song...that would totally rule.

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Wired's take on where some of Sony's problems are coming from:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.09/sony.html